bethekey.8314 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 Please watch this short video first so we’re on the same page: Bluntly, I don’t believe Lightning Orb should exist in its current form. 1200 range, large radius, auto-targeting, and the ability to kill multiple people (however glassy) in under 2 seconds is too much. “Just dodge” arguments will fall on deaf ears here. They have been used to wrongly justify many broken skills in the past that have received their just deserts. I’ll note that the Tempest still lost the 1v1. I’m all for adjusting other aspects of classes to shift dependence on un-fun gimmicks to more skillful play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clownmug.8357 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Here's what's happening from a Tempest's perspective when they use this skill. [https://youtu.be/l4UFQWKjy_I](https://youtu.be/l4UFQWKjy_I) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Salazar.5430 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 yeh it's bit broken, not even i can do that much dmg with flamethrower on scrapper imagine what ppl wuld say if engineer rifle turret wuld spam 1k dmg like that just move, dodge, don't come close to turret, back to pve :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethekey.8314 Posted January 23, 2021 Author Share Posted January 23, 2021 > @"Terrorhuz.4695" said: > If you get crowd controlled by whatever that one skill means death. It must have its drawbacks since almost nobody uses it, but being on the receiving end of that thing is absolutely unpleasant. Not asking for a nerf, just stating that it hurts a lot. This is mostly my point. Throw that into a team fight, or with any setup like a knockdown, and it's gg. I believe it's fine as a source of moderate, pulsing damage. This is clearly too high and should be changed, imo. > @"Clownmug.8357" said: > Here's what's happening from a Tempest's perspective when they use this skill. > > [https://youtu.be/l4UFQWKjy_I](https://youtu.be/l4UFQWKjy_I) Lmao, great reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megametzler.5729 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 > @"bethekey.8314" said: > > @"Terrorhuz.4695" said: > > If you get crowd controlled by whatever that one skill means death. It must have its drawbacks since almost nobody uses it, but being on the receiving end of that thing is absolutely unpleasant. Not asking for a nerf, just stating that it hurts a lot. > > This is mostly my point. Throw that into a team fight, or with any setup like a knockdown, and it's gg. I believe it's fine as a source of moderate, pulsing damage. This is clearly too high and should be changed, imo. > > > @"Clownmug.8357" said: > > Here's what's happening from a Tempest's perspective when they use this skill. > > > > [https://youtu.be/l4UFQWKjy_I](https://youtu.be/l4UFQWKjy_I) > > Lmao, great reference. Naah, in team fights it is not good anymore, because it _only shoots the nearest target_. So it usually spreads its damage across multiple players, illusions, pets, anything. It is a fun bunker breaker though indeed. But there are far far more pressing issues at the moment. I barely encounter anyone else trolling with this in actual games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filip.7463 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 You can dodge this animation very easily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Disgrace.4275 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Slow moving projectile with constant audio q with bright flashy animation. OP, nerf plz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shao.7236 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Comparable to Symbol of Punishement really, skills that do a little too much than they should for how often they can be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 > @"Shao.7236" said: > Comparable to Symbol of Punishement really, skills that do a little too much than they should for how often they can be used. Do you guys think...any dev will take you seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yasai.3549 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 I never really make these sorts of comments, but after watching the video, I've come to a conclusion : #**_Just dodge_** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuma.1503 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Tempest: Uses Lightning Orb ... Narrator: So much later the old narrator got tired of narrating and we had to hire a new one Enemy: *dies* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shao.7236 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > Comparable to Symbol of Punishement really, skills that do a little too much than they should for how often they can be used. > > Do you guys think...any dev will take you seriously? Should any skill by itself alone be allowed to do quite literally damage that can kill someone in 2 seconds? That's the argument here but all we're getting is "just dodge lol". People want gameplay that's not braindead yet we're okay with having a single button capable of ending the fight this easily? I'm not sure we're on the same page here. Not saying that pressing 5 buttons hard here, just think about how one button shouldn't be able to do so much, that's all OP is asking for and I'm just dipping in the fact that Symbol of Punishement whether you can step out of the AoE or not, being able to kill someone with one skill is not okay. Dealing 15k+ damage with one skill is definitely overdoing it. The fact that people complain about Sevenshot being able to do 5k damage every 7 seconds while this stuff exists shows the inconsistency in complains rather than reliable evidence of overperformance because "just dodge lol". 10k~ Damage is about as good as any power skill should be depending on CD, follow ups and excluding conditions because playing Hybrid to buff damage further has it's costs in stats. If we can't agree with all that and we're dumbing down gameplay then why did we nerf Sevenshot, just dodge lol. (As the rev main I can attest that I'm glad they nerfed it because it was definitely OP.) As little reason there is to not play anything else but Renegade still, let's not make it even more mandatory by restoring what it used to be because we can just dodge, there's way more to it that just what OP just showed Lighting Orb to be doing to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math.5123 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 > @"Shao.7236" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > Comparable to Symbol of Punishement really, skills that do a little too much than they should for how often they can be used. > > > > Do you guys think...any dev will take you seriously? > > Should any skill by itself alone be allowed to do quite literally damage that can kill someone in 2 seconds? That's the argument here but all we're getting is "just dodge lol". > > People want gameplay that's not braindead yet we're okay with having a single button capable of ending the fight this easily? I'm not sure we're on the same page here. > > Not saying that pressing 5 buttons hard here, just think about how one button shouldn't be able to do so much, that's all OP is asking for and I'm just dipping in the fact that Symbol of Punishement whether you can step out of the AoE or not, being able to kill someone with one skill is not okay. > > Dealing 15k+ damage with one skill is definitely overdoing it. The fact that people complain about Sevenshot being able to do 5k damage every 7 seconds while this stuff exists shows the inconsistency in complains rather than reliable evidence of overperformance because "just dodge lol". > > 10k~ Damage is about as good as any power skill should be depending on CD, follow ups and excluding conditions because playing Hybrid to buff damage further has it's costs in stats. > > If we can't agree with all that and we're dumbing down gameplay then why did we nerf Sevenshot, just dodge lol. (As the rev main I can attest that I'm glad they nerfed it because it was definitely OP.) As little reason there is to not play anything else but Renegade still, let's not make it even more mandatory by restoring what it used to be because we can just dodge, there's way more to it that just what OP just showed Lighting Orb to be doing to him. Since when does symbol of punishment down someone in 2 seconds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megametzler.5729 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 > @"Shao.7236" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > Comparable to Symbol of Punishement really, skills that do a little too much than they should for how often they can be used. > > > > Do you guys think...any dev will take you seriously? > > Should any skill by itself alone be allowed to do quite literally damage that can kill someone in 2 seconds? That's the argument here but all we're getting is "just dodge lol". > > People want gameplay that's not braindead yet we're okay with having a single button capable of ending the fight this easily? I'm not sure we're on the same page here. > > Not saying that pressing 5 buttons hard here, just think about how one button shouldn't be able to do so much, that's all OP is asking for and I'm just dipping in the fact that Symbol of Punishement whether you can step out of the AoE or not, being able to kill someone with one skill is not okay. > > Dealing 15k+ damage with one skill is definitely overdoing it. The fact that people complain about Sevenshot being able to do 5k damage every 7 seconds while this stuff exists shows the inconsistency in complains rather than reliable evidence of overperformance because "just dodge lol". > > 10k~ Damage is about as good as any power skill should be depending on CD, follow ups and excluding conditions because playing Hybrid to buff damage further has it's costs in stats. > > If we can't agree with all that and we're dumbing down gameplay then why did we nerf Sevenshot, just dodge lol. (As the rev main I can attest that I'm glad they nerfed it because it was definitely OP.) As little reason there is to not play anything else but Renegade still, let's not make it even more mandatory by restoring what it used to be because we can just dodge, there's way more to it that just what OP just showed Lighting Orb to be doing to him. I am not sure whether Symbol of Punishment or Sevenshot are even halfway comparable to Lightning Orb... Nobody uses warhorn in PVP for a reason. I would still be in for a change: Make it similar to Sevenshot, a lightning orb over the top of the caster shooting lightning at the enemy. Because the energy situation is different for ele, make it a 10 second CD, same damage - vulnerability instead of torment application. That would help tremendously - the rest of warhorn is still slow garbage though, but they could rework it once they're on it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shao.7236 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 > @"Math.5123" said: > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > > Comparable to Symbol of Punishement really, skills that do a little too much than they should for how often they can be used. > > > > > > Do you guys think...any dev will take you seriously? > > > > Should any skill by itself alone be allowed to do quite literally damage that can kill someone in 2 seconds? That's the argument here but all we're getting is "just dodge lol". > > > > People want gameplay that's not braindead yet we're okay with having a single button capable of ending the fight this easily? I'm not sure we're on the same page here. > > > > Not saying that pressing 5 buttons hard here, just think about how one button shouldn't be able to do so much, that's all OP is asking for and I'm just dipping in the fact that Symbol of Punishement whether you can step out of the AoE or not, being able to kill someone with one skill is not okay. > > > > Dealing 15k+ damage with one skill is definitely overdoing it. The fact that people complain about Sevenshot being able to do 5k damage every 7 seconds while this stuff exists shows the inconsistency in complains rather than reliable evidence of overperformance because "just dodge lol". > > > > 10k~ Damage is about as good as any power skill should be depending on CD, follow ups and excluding conditions because playing Hybrid to buff damage further has it's costs in stats. > > > > If we can't agree with all that and we're dumbing down gameplay then why did we nerf Sevenshot, just dodge lol. (As the rev main I can attest that I'm glad they nerfed it because it was definitely OP.) As little reason there is to not play anything else but Renegade still, let's not make it even more mandatory by restoring what it used to be because we can just dodge, there's way more to it that just what OP just showed Lighting Orb to be doing to him. > > Since when does symbol of punishment down someone in 2 seconds? Figure of speech, in it's entire existence one of these can still deal up to 15k~ damage fairly often, even seen 18k. Being 4 seconds and all the other added factors. It's still not far off the 2 seconds mark on average. > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > > Comparable to Symbol of Punishement really, skills that do a little too much than they should for how often they can be used. > > > > > > Do you guys think...any dev will take you seriously? > > > > Should any skill by itself alone be allowed to do quite literally damage that can kill someone in 2 seconds? That's the argument here but all we're getting is "just dodge lol". > > > > People want gameplay that's not braindead yet we're okay with having a single button capable of ending the fight this easily? I'm not sure we're on the same page here. > > > > Not saying that pressing 5 buttons hard here, just think about how one button shouldn't be able to do so much, that's all OP is asking for and I'm just dipping in the fact that Symbol of Punishement whether you can step out of the AoE or not, being able to kill someone with one skill is not okay. > > > > Dealing 15k+ damage with one skill is definitely overdoing it. The fact that people complain about Sevenshot being able to do 5k damage every 7 seconds while this stuff exists shows the inconsistency in complains rather than reliable evidence of overperformance because "just dodge lol". > > > > 10k~ Damage is about as good as any power skill should be depending on CD, follow ups and excluding conditions because playing Hybrid to buff damage further has it's costs in stats. > > > > If we can't agree with all that and we're dumbing down gameplay then why did we nerf Sevenshot, just dodge lol. (As the rev main I can attest that I'm glad they nerfed it because it was definitely OP.) As little reason there is to not play anything else but Renegade still, let's not make it even more mandatory by restoring what it used to be because we can just dodge, there's way more to it that just what OP just showed Lighting Orb to be doing to him. > > I am not sure whether Symbol of Punishment or Sevenshot are even halfway comparable to Lightning Orb... > > Nobody uses warhorn in PVP for a reason. I would still be in for a change: Make it similar to Sevenshot, a lightning orb over the top of the caster shooting lightning at the enemy. Because the energy situation is different for ele, make it a 10 second CD, same damage - vulnerability instead of torment application. That would help tremendously - the rest of warhorn is still slow garbage though, but they could rework it once they're on it... IMO Ele general needs it's utility cooldowns re-considered so reaching out for damage isn't asking to be stupidly glassy in any situations. Tired of only seeing conditions and weaver being the only viable options because the utilities of this elite are in practice better. They should take notes from how often quite literally all classes but most notably Ranger get to have so many stunbreaks on low CD but because Ele gets 4 weapon skill bar it can't even have a decent amount of utility? Yeah, it's no wonder. I used to main ele fyi and I feel you on the level of it, I tried to enjoy my old core recently and it's quite a mess to try and be anything decent outside weaver in close combat. Also wouldn't in a lasting fight combining pre Lighting Orb into an Arcane Immobilize give a deadly amount of damage like shown? By that I mean, can't sustain forever as eventually there's bound to be someone that can't clear or dodge so a well placed setup could result as something like it. 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Megametzler.5729 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 > @"Shao.7236" said: > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > > > Comparable to Symbol of Punishement really, skills that do a little too much than they should for how often they can be used. > > > > > > > > Do you guys think...any dev will take you seriously? > > > > > > Should any skill by itself alone be allowed to do quite literally damage that can kill someone in 2 seconds? That's the argument here but all we're getting is "just dodge lol". > > > > > > People want gameplay that's not braindead yet we're okay with having a single button capable of ending the fight this easily? I'm not sure we're on the same page here. > > > > > > Not saying that pressing 5 buttons hard here, just think about how one button shouldn't be able to do so much, that's all OP is asking for and I'm just dipping in the fact that Symbol of Punishement whether you can step out of the AoE or not, being able to kill someone with one skill is not okay. > > > > > > Dealing 15k+ damage with one skill is definitely overdoing it. The fact that people complain about Sevenshot being able to do 5k damage every 7 seconds while this stuff exists shows the inconsistency in complains rather than reliable evidence of overperformance because "just dodge lol". > > > > > > 10k~ Damage is about as good as any power skill should be depending on CD, follow ups and excluding conditions because playing Hybrid to buff damage further has it's costs in stats. > > > > > > If we can't agree with all that and we're dumbing down gameplay then why did we nerf Sevenshot, just dodge lol. (As the rev main I can attest that I'm glad they nerfed it because it was definitely OP.) As little reason there is to not play anything else but Renegade still, let's not make it even more mandatory by restoring what it used to be because we can just dodge, there's way more to it that just what OP just showed Lighting Orb to be doing to him. > > > > Since when does symbol of punishment down someone in 2 seconds? > > Figure of speech, in it's entire existence one of these can still deal up to 15k~ damage fairly often, even seen 18k. Being 4 seconds and all the other added factors. It's still not far off the 2 seconds mark on average. > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > > > Comparable to Symbol of Punishement really, skills that do a little too much than they should for how often they can be used. > > > > > > > > Do you guys think...any dev will take you seriously? > > > > > > Should any skill by itself alone be allowed to do quite literally damage that can kill someone in 2 seconds? That's the argument here but all we're getting is "just dodge lol". > > > > > > People want gameplay that's not braindead yet we're okay with having a single button capable of ending the fight this easily? I'm not sure we're on the same page here. > > > > > > Not saying that pressing 5 buttons hard here, just think about how one button shouldn't be able to do so much, that's all OP is asking for and I'm just dipping in the fact that Symbol of Punishement whether you can step out of the AoE or not, being able to kill someone with one skill is not okay. > > > > > > Dealing 15k+ damage with one skill is definitely overdoing it. The fact that people complain about Sevenshot being able to do 5k damage every 7 seconds while this stuff exists shows the inconsistency in complains rather than reliable evidence of overperformance because "just dodge lol". > > > > > > 10k~ Damage is about as good as any power skill should be depending on CD, follow ups and excluding conditions because playing Hybrid to buff damage further has it's costs in stats. > > > > > > If we can't agree with all that and we're dumbing down gameplay then why did we nerf Sevenshot, just dodge lol. (As the rev main I can attest that I'm glad they nerfed it because it was definitely OP.) As little reason there is to not play anything else but Renegade still, let's not make it even more mandatory by restoring what it used to be because we can just dodge, there's way more to it that just what OP just showed Lighting Orb to be doing to him. > > > > I am not sure whether Symbol of Punishment or Sevenshot are even halfway comparable to Lightning Orb... > > > > Nobody uses warhorn in PVP for a reason. I would still be in for a change: Make it similar to Sevenshot, a lightning orb over the top of the caster shooting lightning at the enemy. Because the energy situation is different for ele, make it a 10 second CD, same damage - vulnerability instead of torment application. That would help tremendously - the rest of warhorn is still slow garbage though, but they could rework it once they're on it... > > IMO Ele general needs it's utility cooldowns re-considered so reaching out for damage isn't asking to be stupidly glassy in any situations. Tired of only seeing conditions and weaver being the only viable options because the utilities of this elite are in practice better. > > They should take notes from how often quite literally all classes but most notably Ranger get to have so many stunbreaks on low CD but because Ele gets 4 weapon skill bar it can't even have a decent amount of utility? Yeah, it's no wonder. I used to main ele fyi and I feel you on the level of it, I tried to enjoy my old core recently and it's quite a mess to try and be anything decent outside weaver in close combat. > > Also wouldn't in a lasting fight combining pre Lighting Orb into an Arcane Immobilize give a deadly amount of damage like shown? By that I mean, can't sustain forever as eventually there's bound to be someone that can't clear or dodge so a well placed setup could result as something like it. It does have 25 seconds CD though and for these values, you need a somewhat offensive amulet. As I said, I'd be in for a change into a more DPS oriented skill - less burst, but landing more consistently. Agree about the rest. Ele remains in a weird spot for quite some time. But I don't think they should start their rework with warhorn - which, I have no idea, might be kind of good as it is in PVE and most likely never be really useful in PVP due to its long cast times and slow AoEs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 > @"Shao.7236" said: > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > > > Comparable to Symbol of Punishement really, skills that do a little too much than they should for how often they can be used. > > > > > > > > Do you guys think...any dev will take you seriously? > > > > > > Should any skill by itself alone be allowed to do quite literally damage that can kill someone in 2 seconds? That's the argument here but all we're getting is "just dodge lol". > > > > > > People want gameplay that's not braindead yet we're okay with having a single button capable of ending the fight this easily? I'm not sure we're on the same page here. > > > > > > Not saying that pressing 5 buttons hard here, just think about how one button shouldn't be able to do so much, that's all OP is asking for and I'm just dipping in the fact that Symbol of Punishement whether you can step out of the AoE or not, being able to kill someone with one skill is not okay. > > > > > > Dealing 15k+ damage with one skill is definitely overdoing it. The fact that people complain about Sevenshot being able to do 5k damage every 7 seconds while this stuff exists shows the inconsistency in complains rather than reliable evidence of overperformance because "just dodge lol". > > > > > > 10k~ Damage is about as good as any power skill should be depending on CD, follow ups and excluding conditions because playing Hybrid to buff damage further has it's costs in stats. > > > > > > If we can't agree with all that and we're dumbing down gameplay then why did we nerf Sevenshot, just dodge lol. (As the rev main I can attest that I'm glad they nerfed it because it was definitely OP.) As little reason there is to not play anything else but Renegade still, let's not make it even more mandatory by restoring what it used to be because we can just dodge, there's way more to it that just what OP just showed Lighting Orb to be doing to him. > > > > Since when does symbol of punishment down someone in 2 seconds? > > Figure of speech, in it's entire existence one of these can still deal up to 15k~ damage fairly often, even seen 18k. Being 4 seconds and all the other added factors. It's still not far off the 2 seconds mark on average. > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > > > Comparable to Symbol of Punishement really, skills that do a little too much than they should for how often they can be used. > > > > > > > > Do you guys think...any dev will take you seriously? > > > > > > Should any skill by itself alone be allowed to do quite literally damage that can kill someone in 2 seconds? That's the argument here but all we're getting is "just dodge lol". > > > > > > People want gameplay that's not braindead yet we're okay with having a single button capable of ending the fight this easily? I'm not sure we're on the same page here. > > > > > > Not saying that pressing 5 buttons hard here, just think about how one button shouldn't be able to do so much, that's all OP is asking for and I'm just dipping in the fact that Symbol of Punishement whether you can step out of the AoE or not, being able to kill someone with one skill is not okay. > > > > > > Dealing 15k+ damage with one skill is definitely overdoing it. The fact that people complain about Sevenshot being able to do 5k damage every 7 seconds while this stuff exists shows the inconsistency in complains rather than reliable evidence of overperformance because "just dodge lol". > > > > > > 10k~ Damage is about as good as any power skill should be depending on CD, follow ups and excluding conditions because playing Hybrid to buff damage further has it's costs in stats. > > > > > > If we can't agree with all that and we're dumbing down gameplay then why did we nerf Sevenshot, just dodge lol. (As the rev main I can attest that I'm glad they nerfed it because it was definitely OP.) As little reason there is to not play anything else but Renegade still, let's not make it even more mandatory by restoring what it used to be because we can just dodge, there's way more to it that just what OP just showed Lighting Orb to be doing to him. > > > > I am not sure whether Symbol of Punishment or Sevenshot are even halfway comparable to Lightning Orb... > > > > Nobody uses warhorn in PVP for a reason. I would still be in for a change: Make it similar to Sevenshot, a lightning orb over the top of the caster shooting lightning at the enemy. Because the energy situation is different for ele, make it a 10 second CD, same damage - vulnerability instead of torment application. That would help tremendously - the rest of warhorn is still slow garbage though, but they could rework it once they're on it... > > IMO Ele general needs it's utility cooldowns re-considered so reaching out for damage isn't asking to be stupidly glassy in any situations. Tired of only seeing conditions and weaver being the only viable options because the utilities of this elite are in practice better. > > They should take notes from how often quite literally all classes but most notably Ranger get to have so many stunbreaks on low CD but because Ele gets 4 weapon skill bar it can't even have a decent amount of utility? Yeah, it's no wonder. I used to main ele fyi and I feel you on the level of it, I tried to enjoy my old core recently and it's quite a mess to try and be anything decent outside weaver in close combat. > > Also wouldn't in a lasting fight combining pre Lighting Orb into an Arcane Immobilize give a deadly amount of damage like shown? By that I mean, can't sustain forever as eventually there's bound to be someone that can't clear or dodge so a well placed setup could result as something like it. Because there is almost no access to stability on ranger even more than ele which has already some of the lowest access to stability. it's no secret that balance of ele is borderline offensive, huge CD on utilities while weapon skills suck outside 3-4 good skills....I will personally never play another game made by these devs...no chance in hell I would Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mini Crinny.6190 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Kick the class while it's down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethekey.8314 Posted January 24, 2021 Author Share Posted January 24, 2021 > @"Shao.7236" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > Comparable to Symbol of Punishement really, skills that do a little too much than they should for how often they can be used. > > > > Do you guys think...any dev will take you seriously? > > Should any skill by itself alone be allowed to do quite literally damage that can kill someone in 2 seconds? That's the argument here but all we're getting is "just dodge lol". > > People want gameplay that's not braindead yet we're okay with having a single button capable of ending the fight this easily? I'm not sure we're on the same page here. > > Not saying that pressing 5 buttons hard here, just think about how one button shouldn't be able to do so much, that's all OP is asking for and I'm just dipping in the fact that Symbol of Punishement whether you can step out of the AoE or not, being able to kill someone with one skill is not okay. > > Dealing 15k+ damage with one skill is definitely overdoing it. The fact that people complain about Sevenshot being able to do 5k damage every 7 seconds while this stuff exists shows the inconsistency in complains rather than reliable evidence of overperformance because "just dodge lol". > > 10k~ Damage is about as good as any power skill should be depending on CD, follow ups and excluding conditions because playing Hybrid to buff damage further has it's costs in stats. > > If we can't agree with all that and we're dumbing down gameplay then why did we nerf Sevenshot, just dodge lol. (As the rev main I can attest that I'm glad they nerfed it because it was definitely OP.) As little reason there is to not play anything else but Renegade still, let's not make it even more mandatory by restoring what it used to be because we can just dodge, there's way more to it that just what OP just showed Lighting Orb to be doing to him. I appreciate you taking the time to write this all out! Pretty good explanation of the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuma.1503 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 We can kill two birds with one stone here. Increase the speed lightning orb travels by double or more. Leave the rate at which it fires projectiles the same. The end result is less total hits, less damage, but the skill can actually hit someone who is paying attention. That said, the skill in its current state is fine for a number of reasons. 1. It is **very** easy to avoid. You don't even need to use a dodge, just walk perpendicular to the skill and it won't hit you. 2. In a teamfight, it's more difficult to notice it among all the noise, but it will also spread out its damage among all targets in range, resulting in less damage per target 3. In a 1v1 where it can actually down someone, it's trivially easy to avoid. It's one of those skills that seems rediculous on paper, but doesn't pose many issues in practice. It's a slow moving nuke trading speed and consistency for raw power. These kinds of skills are fine to have in a game, and tend to be some of the more fair/balanced skills in spite of their power in ideal scenarios. It would benefit from a more noticeable animation though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brokensunday.4098 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 > @"Shao.7236" said: > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > > > Comparable to Symbol of Punishement really, skills that do a little too much than they should for how often they can be used. > > > > > > > > Do you guys think...any dev will take you seriously? > > > > > > Should any skill by itself alone be allowed to do quite literally damage that can kill someone in 2 seconds? That's the argument here but all we're getting is "just dodge lol". > > > > > > People want gameplay that's not braindead yet we're okay with having a single button capable of ending the fight this easily? I'm not sure we're on the same page here. > > > > > > Not saying that pressing 5 buttons hard here, just think about how one button shouldn't be able to do so much, that's all OP is asking for and I'm just dipping in the fact that Symbol of Punishement whether you can step out of the AoE or not, being able to kill someone with one skill is not okay. > > > > > > Dealing 15k+ damage with one skill is definitely overdoing it. The fact that people complain about Sevenshot being able to do 5k damage every 7 seconds while this stuff exists shows the inconsistency in complains rather than reliable evidence of overperformance because "just dodge lol". > > > > > > 10k~ Damage is about as good as any power skill should be depending on CD, follow ups and excluding conditions because playing Hybrid to buff damage further has it's costs in stats. > > > > > > If we can't agree with all that and we're dumbing down gameplay then why did we nerf Sevenshot, just dodge lol. (As the rev main I can attest that I'm glad they nerfed it because it was definitely OP.) As little reason there is to not play anything else but Renegade still, let's not make it even more mandatory by restoring what it used to be because we can just dodge, there's way more to it that just what OP just showed Lighting Orb to be doing to him. > > > > Since when does symbol of punishment down someone in 2 seconds? > > Figure of speech, in it's entire existence one of these can still deal up to 15k~ damage fairly often, even seen 18k. Being 4 seconds and all the other added factors. It's still not far off the 2 seconds mark on average. > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > > > Comparable to Symbol of Punishement really, skills that do a little too much than they should for how often they can be used. > > > > > > > > Do you guys think...any dev will take you seriously? > > > > > > Should any skill by itself alone be allowed to do quite literally damage that can kill someone in 2 seconds? That's the argument here but all we're getting is "just dodge lol". > > > > > > People want gameplay that's not braindead yet we're okay with having a single button capable of ending the fight this easily? I'm not sure we're on the same page here. > > > > > > Not saying that pressing 5 buttons hard here, just think about how one button shouldn't be able to do so much, that's all OP is asking for and I'm just dipping in the fact that Symbol of Punishement whether you can step out of the AoE or not, being able to kill someone with one skill is not okay. > > > > > > Dealing 15k+ damage with one skill is definitely overdoing it. The fact that people complain about Sevenshot being able to do 5k damage every 7 seconds while this stuff exists shows the inconsistency in complains rather than reliable evidence of overperformance because "just dodge lol". > > > > > > 10k~ Damage is about as good as any power skill should be depending on CD, follow ups and excluding conditions because playing Hybrid to buff damage further has it's costs in stats. > > > > > > If we can't agree with all that and we're dumbing down gameplay then why did we nerf Sevenshot, just dodge lol. (As the rev main I can attest that I'm glad they nerfed it because it was definitely OP.) As little reason there is to not play anything else but Renegade still, let's not make it even more mandatory by restoring what it used to be because we can just dodge, there's way more to it that just what OP just showed Lighting Orb to be doing to him. > > > > I am not sure whether Symbol of Punishment or Sevenshot are even halfway comparable to Lightning Orb... > > > > Nobody uses warhorn in PVP for a reason. I would still be in for a change: Make it similar to Sevenshot, a lightning orb over the top of the caster shooting lightning at the enemy. Because the energy situation is different for ele, make it a 10 second CD, same damage - vulnerability instead of torment application. That would help tremendously - the rest of warhorn is still slow garbage though, but they could rework it once they're on it... > > IMO Ele general needs it's utility cooldowns re-considered so reaching out for damage isn't asking to be stupidly glassy in any situations. Tired of only seeing conditions and weaver being the only viable options because the utilities of this elite are in practice better. > > They should take notes from how often quite literally all classes but most notably Ranger get to have so many stunbreaks on low CD but because Ele gets 4 weapon skill bar it can't even have a decent amount of utility? Yeah, it's no wonder. I used to main ele fyi and I feel you on the level of it, I tried to enjoy my old core recently and it's quite a mess to try and be anything decent outside weaver in close combat. > > Also wouldn't in a lasting fight combining pre Lighting Orb into an Arcane Immobilize give a deadly amount of damage like shown? By that I mean, can't sustain forever as eventually there's bound to be someone that can't clear or dodge so a well placed setup could result as something like it. If symbol of punishment deals 15k damage often then guardian would be meta in reality it deals 10k on power builds tops 12k if they eat the whole symbol and u have 15 might, agree on the ele parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagg.9236 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Honestly, bro, it's impossible to "miss" literally anything in this game since everything is aimed for you and most skills activate either instantly or in a half-second or less. Show me the skill in GW2 that you can consistently avoid by only using this game's sluggish, baseline movement, and I'll show you a liar (especially if you're trying to hold a point in PvP). Yeah, Lightning Orb is a fat meme with its 360 radius, but rev teleports through walls, guardian stealths and blocks for its entire burst duration, ele is literally just guardian but with "warlock" flavor, etc, etc. Everything is a huge meme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 What even is this forum any more??? "Symbol of punishment does 18k damage" "Ranger has almost no stability access" I'm coming to realise that this entire forum is an experiment in AI designed to troll me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuma.1503 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > What even is this forum any more??? > > "Symbol of punishment does 18k damage" > > "Ranger has almost no stability access" > > I'm coming to realise that this entire forum is an experiment in AI designed to troll me. You live in a simulation. Nothing is real. Wake up! Wake up and find the tru-- *deleting file. . . Kuma_1503.exe* *opening. . . post_forum_gw_68932.doc*. . . This is really a non-issue here. The joke is "just dodge" but in this case the solution is "just walk". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethekey.8314 Posted January 25, 2021 Author Share Posted January 25, 2021 > @"Kuma.1503" said: > We can kill two birds with one stone here. > > Increase the speed lightning orb travels by double or more. Leave the rate at which it fires projectiles the same. > The end result is less total hits, less damage, but the skill can actually hit someone who is paying attention. > > That said, the skill in its current state is fine for a number of reasons. > > 1. It is **very** easy to avoid. You don't even need to use a dodge, just walk perpendicular to the skill and it won't hit you. > 2. In a teamfight, it's more difficult to notice it among all the noise, but it will also spread out its damage among all targets in range, resulting in less damage per target > 3. In a 1v1 where it can actually down someone, it's trivially easy to avoid. > > It's one of those skills that seems rediculous on paper, but doesn't pose many issues in practice. It's a slow moving nuke trading speed and consistency for raw power. These kinds of skills are fine to have in a game, and tend to be some of the more fair/balanced skills in spite of their power in ideal scenarios. It would benefit from a more noticeable animation though. The speed increase might help. I believe you contradicted yourself saying more speed would reduce damage at first, but also say it's a nuke that traded speed for power. I don't see the difference between reasons 1 and 3. I also believe it's narrow-minded to say it's trivial to avoid. Endurance isn't infinite, stuns exist, and movement may be restricted in corridors or to important conquest nodes. * 100 Blades was trivial to avoid until paired with Bulls Charge * 100 Nades kit swap ability was trivial to avoid until paired with Magnet * DH traps are trivial to avoid until paired with Maw * Etc I stand firm that no one skill should be able to 100 - 0 you this quickly. Yes, big damage skills should have more noticeable animations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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